100 Comments on “What Computer Games get Wrong about Tank Combat – with a Veteran”

  1. Recently retired US Army Armor officer – have visited Panzermuseum Munster as well. Don't entirely disagree with some of your conclusions but would offer some alternative thoughts for consideration. Would love to discuss this topic at length with you guys. Let me know.

  2. It's not about just there being more than one crew member or some fog of war. There were more than just tanks during a battle, the uncertainties of what might happen were limitless, the potential for things going wrong limitless and tanks had to communicate also between them and with other arms, such as artillery and infantry, etc. In computer games it is more like watching football with tanks instead of football players.

  3. Not to mention in real life tanks don't have hit points, dead crewmen can't be revived with kits, and ammo explosions are much more likely. I wish there were more true tank simulators out there for download. No 3rd person perspective(or at least option to turn it off) and if your crew is unbuttoned machine gun fire can kill them. Panzer Commander on Windows 95 for PC was like that back 23 years ago…it had nice interior views of the tank too(for it's time-remember how primitive computers were then, a 16mb graphics card and 256mb of ram was good back then).

    Good points about crew communication, bore sighting and range finding, nice video! Respect for the IDF from the U.S.!

  4. Fairly accurate. Another thing (obviously) not included is the share amount of maintenance you have to do for the vehicle. Also quick reactions to sudden system failures, troubleshooting them and going forward with backup systems. The vehicles on the games are rarely camouflaged with real trees etc. Few games allow you to lead a platoon sized tank group, or larger. Haven't seen any game that would allow you to give hand signals for other vehicles and infantry.

  5. sometimes i get the "opposite" beef about these games. The more "realistic" it gets the less so it actually is. What I mean is that you're playing a tank commander who likely has trained for years and has experience spotting and gunners knowing how to aim from training and experience but I'm not that skilled at those things so of course the AI, and game mechanics, should help me a bit. Otherwise it's not an actual war simulator but rather simulating what it's like to field and army of accountants (or whatever) rather than trained soldiers.

  6. I used to play a mod for battlefield 2 called project reality which I think came fairly close. Two things different from most games were 1. a lot of walking and waiting 2. very often not actually seeing the enemy, or seeing them at a far distance, which of course got very frustrating at times when you had walked and walked and walked and waited and then you suddenly were killed by one shot and didnt even see the shooter.

  7. In the 90's and what not, games did a lot of realistic aspects to the best the hardware could provide. Nowadays, people want to really get straight into games without much difficulty, which in itself isn't nessecarily wrong, but casual gameplay and simulators have to be separate, as catering only to the larger group of casuals is one of many reasons for War Thunder's decline.

  8. try this one: www.steelbeasts.com you'll can have an AI gunner calling correction (or a human TC if you want to do it right)

  9. You can drive a Elephant tank destroyer more than five inches without the transmission catching fire.

  10. In my opinion the best way to do tank warfare in games is with three crew.

    Driver only gets his little viewport. He controls all movement functions and, if the tank has one, he can control the hull MG.

    Gunner only gets the gunsight. He runs the gun and coax.

    Commander gets a commander hatch view and depending on the tank he can turn out for better visibility. His job, other than being the eyes, is the radio, dorsal MG if there is one, and ordering the NPC loader once a shell is fired.

    Now it sounds like the commander has all the work, but his jobs aren’t exactly as in depth as the other two. He has alot of simple jobs whereas the driver and gunner each have one complicated role.

  11. There is a limitation to what games can do when it comes to realism vs fun. A company such as wargaming need to think of what is fun for the player base, because an example being, there were many tanks that don't even run, or had malfunction. Imagine spawning into a game of world of tanks and your sherman's engine wouldnt start, which was common back in the day and was a very realistic issue. there just has to be a limit to realism and fun or it would be a game anymore.

  12. You won't do well walking your rounds in vs an American tanker. It's a tank, not artillery. And yes, I was a tank gunner in the 3d Armored Cav. 1st round hit, 1st round kill… that's the way we roll.

  13. Thanks for another great video. As far as tank sims go I think Steel Beasts played online is as close a depiction of the modern armoured combat as you can get.

  14. "Driver, Left Stick, head for that big fuck of rock [WoT]… Gunner, Traverse Right…. Loader, APDS… Gunner, Range 400m, APDS, T55, Steady ON… Driver Slow down, aaaaand Halt… Gunner Go on!" —meanwhile— (on the radio: Contact T55 Grid 246810. Sighted. [hopefully] Unseen. This callsign engaging.)
    As you spill your coffee, drop your map, toss your jaffle out the hatch, wonder why you didn't have a piss when you could've and look at your NEXT moves….

  15. I think squad gets it the closest right now. Four people in the abrams, all of whom have to communicate effectively to use the tank. Driver, gunner, commander, and a loader using a CROWS .50 cal. For the teamwork stuff that seems to get it the closest from what I’ve seen.

  16. What's the most stupid, unrealistic and senseless thing in a war game i can think of? Tanks disappearing and appearing on sight. It's hideous. What kind of an idiot makes such system in any game existing?

  17. Post Scriptum changed that you have a Gunner, Driver, and a Commander when in a tank it’s really cool

  18. Well…. war thunder lest just say u can have the driver view and also the gunners… why are you 1 person in games? Becuse its too difficult to controll the gunner comander driver… all at once and it definetly wouldent be fun as a tank main game. You do have games where you play as a soldier and then its as real as possible and you see what you would be seeing but its not a tank/vehicle main game

  19. imagine in a tank with russian commander, chinese loader, and brazilian driver. this is why people make it 1 tank for 1 player

  20. Maybe it would have been better to interview an actual veteran tank crewman, Australia does have M1 abrams but they did not deploy them in Iraq. Not saying this guys points are wrong but It would have been better to get the opinions of a combat veteran tank crewman like Nicholas Moran.

  21. I think post scriptum has a pretty “accurate” system, as a driver Or gunner your field of view is very limited

  22. Watch this video with The Mighty Jingles, its a new world war 2 game with tank combat. You can play it with a full crew of people that have to work together, ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8cUAUJ7_ug) it seems the most realistic. And thanks for the insight.

  23. War thunder is made like that from fun but if you want to play a game like that you play a game like that (they do exist)

  24. I HATE it when in WWII games the tanks shoot while they are driving. I HATE HATE HATE HATEHATEHATEHTAEAEHAE it.
    This made me uninstall so many games. I really wanted to enjoy Call of Duty WW2 but as soon as I saw the tanks shooting while driving FUCCCCCKKKK I ragequitted and uninstalled. FUCK YOU

  25. More reasons to play Steel Beasts Pro PE (esp. if you are multi crewing – Commander, Gunner and Driver modeled). But then again its a "simulation" as opposed to a "game" 🙂

  26. I recommend Steel Fury, Post Scriptum, Hell Let Loose, Forgotten Hope 2, Red Orchestra series, Arma, T-34 vs Tiger, Steel Armor Blaze Of War to this gentelmen from Australia.

  27. I’ve always wished in realistic battles in war thunder if your commander gets killed you loose the binocular view just to make it more realistic and challenging

  28. Martin's tank gun was probably too high velocity or gun flash too bright to see the tracer of the shot. During WII shots were slower and the gunner or commander could see the track of the tracer and make adjustments to it. (A movie with good tracer action is Fury.)
    Some tanks like the 75mm Sherman were advised to bracket targets over 1000 yards.

    I have to agree that in games the player gets too much feedback from their shots. The player knows when a target tank is destroyed but in cases if it is hit there is no knowledge if there is damage or not.

  29. 900 hundred US tanks were lost with each tank losing about 1 crew member from D-Day till VE Day. Although terrible it is not as bad as the games and movie industry suggests.

  30. A million years ago I worked in a store that sold computer games, and one of the most interesting-sounding games that nobody bought was an attack helicopter sim that was too realistic. You had players crashing because they couldn't remember which key command extended the antenna and so on.

  31. I was watching that american tank movie (edit: "Fury") with my friends in the cinema. After it ended we agreed that they should have had a repair kit to fix the tracks.

  32. 0:31 to translate for the non military among you … he specialized in making shit go boom… but in a more personalized" way than the artillery do and then transferred to bush sitting duty 😛

  33. 3:28 "gunner target (tank/infantery/stucture) right/left/forward/back (bearing xxx / xx oclock / hard/right/left) 1 round "

  34. 4:14 also… this is why intercom is reaaaaly important in a tank… because … they are loud… and even louder when shits pinging of the Armour and you can't really yell that loud for that long lol

  35. 5:24 and thats why in all those after action reports there were tigers every where in face… it was usually the same bloody ones and every time some one came across it the fire a round into it to be sure lol

  36. 6:08 but thats the thing thats exactly what they were experiences why they were writing there after action reports in ww2 oh we knocked out 70 soviet tanks… turns out it was like 10 …

  37. 7:02 you just have to "walk" the shots in… or if you're in in with other tanks all pick a range and fire one after another or you range with the mg .. (assuming before hand you have worked out the range of the mg fall of shot ave the varying gun elevations )

  38. 8:09 i mean the big problem with it is… well unless you get lucky on the first round .. the guys on the other end will have gone to ground and thus you have lost the best opportunity to murder as many of them quickly ..

  39. I think you could get some of that crew friction and reaction time in a game by limiting your players view to commanders hatch head out, gunners site which is also the view you need to slew the turret, and audio ques from other players reporting on opposing positions. Also getting rid of capture points and going more on a territory held model. And no respawns.

  40. All good points. But as I was reminded when I complained about it being unrealistic in play. The games ate not accurate just suppose to be fun. That was when I stopped playing because I couldn't under why we couldn't have both.

  41. Computer games that model tank combat at a higher level (company, battalion) are realistic in ways that may not be strictly obvious. Combat Mission has vehicle audio, for example, which often betrays the presence of a tank to infantry long before it is seen, and a tank cannot magically be aware of the presence of an enemy unless they see or hear it themselves. Close Combat did an excellent job of modeling the morale effect that friendly or hostile tanks had on infantry. Steel Panthers does a stellar job of modeling how mutually supporting tank platoons have to work closely with infantry and artillery, especially in urban and forested areas. They cannot do the job alone.

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